An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Practice! Practice! Practice! A rule of thumb I use, as well as others in this industry, is to practice one hour for each minute of the presentation. So for a five minute presentation, I would practice around five hours. Again, it’s just a rule of thumb, and the actual time practicing can vary depending on how familiar you are with the material. I know I’m getting close when I have it memorized, and it’s consistent on how long it goes. When it’s fully memorized (no notes) I know I’ll be less likely to freeze up and forget something. When I get to the point of having it memorized, I then practice the nuances in the delivery. I make sure the latter part of the practice is in front of a mirror. If it’s extemporaneous speaking, I only speak on topics I know inside and out.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Jon Saunders.
Jon is an experienced business leader with a passion for the telecom industry. He started in the telecom industry as a network engineer with SECOM, Inc. in 1999. He has served there for the last 20 years in various C-Level roles. Currently, he serves as the Chief Business Development Officer. He is a regular speaker at industry conferences and events as well as testifies on telecom issues at the legislature.
Jon’s other passion is helping leaders of all levels accelerate their growth toward their peak potential. His desire to pay forward what others taught him inspired him in 2019 to found a leadership coaching and training company, Peak Leadership Academy. He also delivers key note addresses on leadership at conferences and to organizations. Currently, he is certified as a Marshall Goldsmith Stakeholder Centered Coach; a John Maxwell Team Coach, Speaker, and Trainer; and WillPower Trainer. He and Christol, his wife of nearly 40 years, reside near La Junta, Colorado, the area where they both grew up.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
Thank you Fotis, the pleasure is mine. I grew up in a rural part of the eastern plains of Colorado — near a small town named La Junta. My family has lived in this area for generations. Both sets of my grandparents moved here well over 100 years ago — the early 1900’s. My wife and I still live here — we both grew up in the country and love living there. I was the youngest of five, and youngest by many years. I was a ‘later in life child’ and probably more like a grandchild to my parents.
So if you envision a classic “techie nerd” stereotype, that was me growing up. I’ve always been a techie, loved science, and I have very little athletic ability. As a child, when I got something new, I had to take it apart and see how it worked. When I was in the 5th grade, I took some discarded phone parts and built an intercom between our house and my dad’s shop. In the 8th grade, I started doing computer programming, and in high school, I was doing programming on a mainframe for some of my teachers. This was back in the 1970’s there weren’t many PCs.
From the time I was born, we lived in the country a few miles out of town. Both of my parents had jobs in town. So before I got my driver’s license, during the summer if I wanted do something, my bike was my transportation to and from town. When I was in the 6th grade, I joined band and really got into music. I started played trombone and later picked up bass guitar. Name the band, and I was in it — concert band, marching band, pep band, jazz band. It was because of music that I met my wife during my senior year in high school. To this day, I love being part of a music group. During high school, I was into electronics, computer programming, rebuilding cars, and music. My favorite class — Physics. As for my personality type, I am primarily an introvert.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
Yes, there is one memorable event that changed my perspective on public speaking. It was about 25 years ago at my previous job. The company had started a new division doing computer networking. The new division was going well and having success. One of our national vendors asked if I would come talk about the success at one of their events. Well, I accepted. My first thought was what did I just get myself into? I spent many hours prepping for the presentation. I was pretty nervous when it was time to present. When I got up to the mic and started talking, something clicked, and the nervousness melted away. All of the prep time paid off as I knew the material inside out. While I was giving the talk, I could feel the audience’s engagement. Because the audience was engaged, I put more energy into the presentation. We were building on each other’s energy. When I finished, the organizer made a beeline to me. While people were still clapping he grabbed my hand shaking it with both of his and said “That was outstanding!” The audience’s response and his encouraging words gave me a sense of accomplishment. I was like wow, that just happened! That event started me on this path.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Absolutely, this happened at my current employer. In my role, I would often do an all company motivational presentation that described what the focus was going to be during the upcoming year. I did this for several years, and they went well. One year, the presentation went exceptionally well and the room was electrified with positive energy. I had never experienced it to that degree before. When I finished, I walked to the back of the room to get something to drink and chill while the meeting continued. That’s when one of my coworkers came up to me and said “You’re an ambivert!” Now I had no idea what that was, and I took a half of a step back. I thought about it for a few seconds with my face wrinkled up, and jokingly responded “Uh, should I be offended by that?” We both laughed and he said oh no. He went on to explain that an ambivert is someone who is introverted most of the time. However, once they get in their zone, they are very extroverted. He said “That’s you when you give a presentation.” So that was an eye opening day for me in a couple of ways. One was feeling the energy of the room, and two, hearing that speaking is in my zone.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Oh I’ve had plenty of those, and this one stands out. I was well along the way on this path speaking both internally at my day job, as well as externally at industry conferences and other events. I had come across some new curriculum for a lunch and learn on leadership, and I decided to present it internally. The curriculum and presentation were canned, and including a script. I had gone over the presentation, just not enough. I was cocky and though “I’ve gone over the slides enough and I can just wing it from here.” Well, let’s say it didn’t go so well. I stumbled all over my words, and had to keep looking at the slide and read the canned script. Afterwards, I was talking to a long time coworker — the one I mentioned earlier, and was joking about how awkward the presentation was and that I wouldn’t ever use canned curriculum again. About that time, a new employee came up to us. He didn’t know I did public speaking, and offered some well-intended advice. He said “I can tell you’ve never really been in front of an audience before and that it’s uncomfortable for you to speak to a group. Don’t worry — it will get easier.” The long time coworker and I both chuckled as I thanked him. Two lessons learned — don’t try to use someone else’s canned speech. If it’s not “you” to begin, it never will be and will be awkward. If you need to use their presentation, rewrite the script and make it your own. Second — spend the time to be fully prepared to deliver your presentation.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Oh wow! I’ve had so much help from so many people that it’s hard to narrow it to one single person! My dad, gave me a huge confidence builder when I was around 13 years old. Our water well was broken, and he trusted me to fix the pump by myself. That led me to my early career of repairing things. From there, my first boss personally invested in me in so many ways, and helped me get where I am. Most of what I learned about business I learned from him. He is a true entrepreneur. He believed in me, challenged me and gave me the confidence I needed to grow. Earlier, I mentioned the new division that started up in the company. Well, my boss invested in my training as an engineer. He then put me in charge of starting the new division. It was an inspiring and challenging learning curve. It was also a big confidence and skill builder for me. I’m thankful for his willingness to hugely invest time, energy, and resources into me. Finally, I am so grateful for my wife of nearly 40 years. She has been such an inspiration and helped me in so many ways. I could have never gotten here without her.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Thank you for your kind words Fotis! This can be daunting, and it can be discouraging at times when you first begin. In fact, it can be an emotional rollercoaster of ups and downs. There are a couple of things I would suggest keeping in mind when starting. First, get experience by speaking as often as you can. Many groups and organizations are looking for pro-bono speakers. Another way to get practice and grow is to join a group such as Toast Masters. Second, know that you will have setbacks, bad presentations and less than helpful critics. Those are the lows on the rollercoaster. Rather than focus on the setback, learn from it and move forward. As you do more and more speaking, you will get better, and the up and down rollercoaster ride will smooth out.
What drives you to get up everyday and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
I’m so inspired by this question! You may have opened a Pandora’s box here, and I will try to be brief. First, I like to challenge and motivate people to grow personally and professionally. I believe the best way to grow is to actively lead yourself — nobody is going to do it for you. Growth can be accelerated with a coach. That is why I’m also a leadership coach. So, speaking and coaching go hand in hand for me. There are so many hard lessons I’ve learned way too late in my life. I wish someone would have taught me these lessons when I was younger so that I could have grown earlier and avoided some painful mistakes. So, it’s rewarding when I’m coaching or speaking and it helps someone.
The a main message I want to share is that everyone has several strengths. Often, our strength areas are so easy and natural for us that we don’t realize they are a strength. We assume that everyone has those skills. So, take time to learn and know what your strengths are. This is an area where help is essential. There are some great assessments you can take, and it’s helpful to get others perspectives on this. Once you know what your strengths are, focus and put your effort into growing them. In doing that, one can go from great to amazing.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
Thank you so much Fotis. I have two projects I’m currently working on. One is a new keynote for businesses that I’m currently calling The Five Core Strategies. The presentation is based on what I have experienced in business over the last 40 years. I’ve successfully used this framework while I was in leadership during my two different careers. In short, many businesses focus their attention on their products, or sales and marketing efforts. Please don’t misunderstand me — those things are very important and are needed. I believe that when a company understands their Purpose and the Culture they want to develop, they can then better define the Experience they want their customers to have. These three things, Purpose, Culture and Customer Experience, set the foundation of the company and how the customer will be served. When these first three strategies are in alignment, then the last two strategies, the Products and the Sales/Marketing, will fall into place easier, and bring more success. Think of it in terms of music. If all of the band is in tune together, the music flows and is sweet to the ears. If only one instrument is slightly out of tune, it’s still music, just less appealing. The Five Core Strategies work in a similar way. When they are in alignment, it’s like having everyone in the band in tune making sweet harmony.
The second project I’m working on is curriculum for a series of customer service classes. This one is structured different than most other customer service classes. Rather than one class packed full of details, these lessons are short and spaced over time. I believe we learn new skills best by taking small steps over time, and when those small steps are repeated, they become habits and skills. My experience is that a single short class doesn’t have time to go over what’s needed. If it’s a long class, too much information is dropped all at once and the student doesn’t come away learning all of the material.
Think about this. Have you ever gone to a class or conference and are all fired up at the end of it? You have all these things you want to do and are very enthusiastic. A week later you are still pumped up, just not quite as much. You tell yourself “I’ll start working on that soon.” A month later you’re like “That was really cool! I’ll get to it sometime.” Six months later, you are asking yourself “Now what did they talk about that seemed so good at the time?” I call it excitement fade. Most of us do well if we can take away one or two things from a big event and then get the ideas implemented. This is where several short lessons comes in.
To prevent the excitement fade, participants in this program learn one or possibly two things each lesson. They have a chance to roleplay to practice the skill during the class where it’s a safe environment. It can be intimidating trying a new skill for the first time with a real customer! Roleplay and practice helps get us over that hurdle. So after the participant learns the new skill in class, they go and practice it in their work until the next lesson. It’s best to have one or two weeks between lessons. At the next lesson, they add another skill and then go practice the new skill as well as the previous one. This continues, adding a new skill each lesson. When the classes are all put together in a series, it produces significant and lasting improvement.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Yes — it comes from the legendary football coach Vince Lombardi. He said “Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile.” I keep a picture with this quote on my office wall. As I mentioned earlier, I grew up an academic techie. I was socially obtuse and had low EQ or Emotional Intelligence. I knew I was that way, and I thought I was destined to be that way for life. Side note — this is an example of why not to stereotype yourself; I had put myself in a box. So, when I realized that anyone can grow in Emotional Intelligence, and that leaders are made rather than born, I made the decision to dive in and learn and grow in both of these areas. Growing in these areas is a process and I have so much ahead of me to learn. When I feel discouraged, I look at the quote on my wall, and spend some extra time with my wife.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
The first one is Practice! Practice! Practice! A rule of thumb I use, as well as others in this industry, is to practice one hour for each minute of the presentation. So for a five minute presentation, I would practice around five hours. Again, it’s just a rule of thumb, and the actual time practicing can vary depending on how familiar you are with the material. I know I’m getting close when I have it memorized, and it’s consistent on how long it goes. When it’s fully memorized (no notes) I know I’ll be less likely to freeze up and forget something. When I get to the point of having it memorized, I then practice the nuances in the delivery. I make sure the latter part of the practice is in front of a mirror. If it’s extemporaneous speaking, I only speak on topics I know inside and out.
Also, while practicing and preparing, it’s also good to look at the big picture as well as focus on the details of the presentation. I once did a short presentation that included a personal story from my early teens. The highlight of the story was my dad firmly telling me “You can do it”, and how him saying that gave me the confidence to do it. This was the time I mentioned earlier where he had me fix our water well pump. Well, as I was preparing for this talk, I had focused so much on the story and delivery that I didn’t have a good ending with a punch. After I did the presentation, someone came up to me afterwards and pointed out that I had missed an opportunity. They said it would have been even more impactful if I had repeated what my dad told me, ending the talk with “You can do it.” In fact, this person thought that’s how I was going to end it.
Second thing, bring energy to the presentation! Nobody wants to listen to someone that’s stiff and monotone. Liven it up! It’s important to capture the audience’s attention and get them hooked right at the start. There seems to be a very short window of time to do that — typically less than a minute. There are many techniques to connect with and captivate the audience. Find what works for your personality and style. Again, it’s important to bring energy. One way is to vary vocal inflection, volume, and speed. If it almost feels like you are exaggerating these things, then it’s probably about the right amount. Adding pauses for emphasis is also another powerful tool. It can feel awkward having a silent pause for a few seconds. When used appropriately, it can powerfully drive a point home. Another great way to add energy is through movement and gestures. Make sure to use an appropriate amount of gestures and be cognizant of your body language. For me, I prefer a wireless mic so that I can move away from a podium. At smaller venues, that may not be an option. Last suggestion on this area — record yourself when you practice. When you play it back, watch specifically to see if you are bringing energy.
The third thing is content! Balance between actual points you are trying to make and stories. Too many points and the audience will be overwhelmed, not taking anything away. Think about it — would you rather listen to a lecture or be entertained while you learn? I try to make the stories the biggest part of the presentation. By adding relevant stories that tie in, it makes the presentation entertaining, and more memorable. If you can, bring in real life stories from your personal experience. Be on the lookout for quotes or stories and make notes when one is found. They can come from anywhere — a conversation, a book, a movie, or better yet an event in your life. Some keep track and log them on 3×5 cards. For me, when I come across one, I put it into a database app on my phone. Would a techie do it any other way? It’s good to keep track of the source, so credit can be given for the story or quote. It’s also helpful to categorize each item. For example it’s a story, an inspirational quote and so forth.
I once used a story from my personal experience in a customer service class. Remember, I live in a small town, and everyone knows everyone. Well, I thought I had anonymized the story enough that no one would know which store, or who the clerk was. When I finished the story, someone blurted out “You’re talking about (person’s name) at (store).” The whole class laughed. Apparently everyone in the class had experienced the same thing with this clerk!
Number Four, deliver your presentation with a calm confidence — something I learned from my wife! When presenting, make sure to speak low, and slow, unless purposely doing different for effect. It’s very easy to speed up and raise your pitch as you get into the presentation. Be conscious of this and adjust as needed. Also, make sure to keep your shoulders lowered. If you look tense, you lose impact. Keep a positive look or smile on, other than when you deliberately want something different for effect. Make sure to scan the audience slowly with your eyes. It’s good to make eye contact with someone — it builds rapport. Be careful though, there are some big potential dangers in this. For example it’s easy to always look to get eye contact with the same few people who smile at you — make sure and mix it up.
There are a couple of ways to get yourself in a calm confidence mindset before you present. The first one is power posing. Amy Cuddy has a great TED Talk on this. The second one is a technique and mnemonic I came up with years ago, and I still use it today: BRASS. B- Breath. R — Relax. A — Arms and shoulders. S — Smile. S — Serve.
Here is how to use the BRASS technique. Start by taking in a deep BREATH — (B), as you take it in, purposely raise your shoulders. Hold it for a second and slowly exhale. As you exhale slowly, clear your mind and then think RELAX — (R)– I tell myself things like “I can do this! I’ve got this!” Also as you exhale, purposely drop your ARMS — (A) and shoulders down, pushing them lower than you normally hold them. As you finish exhaling, put on a big SMILE –(S). Finally, when you’ve finished exhaling, think “This isn’t about me. I’m here to SERVE — (S).” Do this several times, and your will have your mind pointed in a better direction, plus, you will have oxygenated your brain so that it will be working at its optimum.
The fifth and final thing — if using a PowerPoint, remember that less is more. The audience is here to see and listen to you, and a presentation is a supplement to add impact. Minimize fancy slide transitions and animations. They can look really cool, and at the same time, they shift the focus from you to the screen. A few slides with animations are ok if they add emphasis. Presentations should be created with the person in the back of the room in mind– the one that is farthest away from the screen. As a rule of thumb, if your font is smaller than 32, you have too many words — shorten it. Use simple fonts that are easy to read. Script fonts may look classy; they are just hard to read — especially for those in the back of the room. Avoid more than three bullet points per page. If you have more than three, consider restructuring (maybe put in more slides). Finally, remember, people think in pictures, and a picture paints a thousand words. So find good images that accentuates or helps convey what you are saying, and then add minimal wording for emphasis.
I was breaking all of my above “guidelines” when I first started. Before I learned these lessons, my talks were much less impactful. Early on, I spoke at an industry conference, and the PowerPoint I had created was terrible. It detracted from my presentation rather than enhance it since they were watching the screen and not me. It was a hard lesson learned. It’s a good thing it was a small audience then and they were very forgiving as they have had me back! Now, when I’m at conferences, I watch other presenters closely to see what I can learn from them — what works and what doesn’t.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Absolutely! Speaking in front of a group of people can feel terrifying! This can be overcome. In my dad’s words, “You can do it.” So I have an exercise I would like everyone to try right now. Close your eyes and imagine yourself stepping onto a stage and walking to the podium to deliver a three hour keynote to 5,000 people. Go ahead and try it now! Did you get the so called butterflies in your stomach, or a shot of adrenalin? I did just thinking about it. That feeling — it is totally normal. Now close your eyes and think about seeing someone face-to-face who is very special to you — someone you haven’t seen for months or years. Did you get similar physical reactions? Most people do. The point here is that the physical response to both fear and excitement are very similar, if not the same. It comes down to a matter of how they are interpreted. Because the brain and body responses for fear and excitement are so similar, one way to overcome the fear is to interpret those butterflies as excitement rather than fear. Tell yourself, I’m not afraid, I’m excited. By reinterpreting those sensations and feelings, you can put yourself on a positive trajectory rather than a negative one.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
Developing great leadership! Think about this: we are all leaders as we all lead ourselves. Granted, we may be more or less conscious of how we lead ourself. I want to raise that consciousness of how we lead ourselves. I believe that when we learn to lead ourselves effectively, we are better at leading others. So that’s where it starts — with ourself. Also, leadership doesn’t just apply at your job. We lead at home, and in all the other parts of our lives. Another point to this, we can lead when we aren’t in charge. True leadership isn’t by title, it’s by attitude and action. Clay Scroggins has a great book on this if you want to learn more about that idea.
I believe if we all work at being better servants and leaders of both of self and of others, the world will be better place. Then, if each of us passes on what we have learned to someone else, paying it forward so to speak, the cycle will continue and grow.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Marshall Goldsmith — He is the top of the top leadership coaches. He is also an amazing speaker and thought leader. Because he is such a great teacher and coach, one can’t help but learn when listening to him. It would be humbling and a great honor to sit down with him for lunch and learn from him.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Yes, you can follow me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonbsaunders/
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
Thank you so much Fotis! This has been an honor!
Jon Saunders On The 5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.
