An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
… A Love for Your Audience: When it comes to the fear of public speaking, I’ll often joke with people “How dare you be so selfish.” Because when you’re so focused on how scared you feel it’s because all your energy is on you. It’s centered on worrying about what’s happening to you. When your attention and energy is directed towards the audience and bringing them value (whether they learn something or it’s just for entertainment) then you’re serving a higher purpose. It’s easier to do it in spite of the fear, when you’re serving others. In fact, you might still be nervous but you’ll find the courage to do it anyhow, because IT MATTERS on a whole different level.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Janene Liston.
Janene is a highly trusted Pricing Consultant & Business Coach working with small businesses, startups and entrepreneurs across industries and the globe. She’s also a Certified Pricing Professional who has been helping businesses improve pricing and profits for over 25 years. Her mission is to empower small businesses to be more sustainably profitable — turning their purpose into profits. Helping them know the economic value of their offer. Ensuring they can confidently create, communicate and charge for the value they deliver. She’s the host of Live with the Pricing Lady, the Podcast, a European public speaking Champion and a sought after podcast and radio show guest. Watch out, her passion for pricing is contagious.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I was born and raised in northern California. I was often called “little Miss Independent”, I was and still am fiercely independent. I’m the eldest of two children and the first in my family to go to University. I was shy and yet very active. I played a lot of sports including swimming, tennis, soccer and volleyball. I like to do things differently than others. At about 10, when we could join the band the instructor suggested flute or clarinet, like all the other girls. No way that wasn’t good enough for me. Nope, I chose to play the oboe. I wanted to be different, a theme that’s played a big role in my life.
I remember our family vacations. We had a two-door Mustang that we’d travel in for 3–5 weeks at a time. In the trunk we had 2, two-man pump tents, a one-burner Coleman stove, one ice chest, one picnic basket and one suitcase for 4 people. My brother and I sat in the backseats on top of the four sleeping bags and nestled amongst the four pillows.
Tally ho! Off we’d go on those family adventures. I often tell people if it’s between California, Vancouver, east to North Dakota, south to Texas and back west to Southern California AND if it was in the AAA Guide Book, I’ve seen it. Every ice cave, lava tube, Indian ruin and boulder with a plaque in the middle of it. I’ve seen them all. We learned early on, if my dad said we were taking a “shortcut” that it was going to be a long day…as we’d inevitably end up lost.
My mom forced us to keep journals on these journeys, with drawings and all. She’s kept them but we’ve yet had the chance to see them now. I look forward to it one day.
Maybe all that exploration is why I love to travel. After university I spent 8 years in southwest Connecticut. Later In 2001, I relocated to Switzerland. I went for the life experience, the job was the vehicle that got me here to Europe. I was on a 2 year contract when I came. 20+ years later I’m a dual citizen, with Swiss and US passports. I live in the Basel area and am fluent in German. I’ve traveled the world both for my job and for pleasure going to both places I never dreamed of and others I never knew existed. I wouldn’t trade a moment of it. It’s been amazing and I’m not done yet!
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
I had no clue what I wanted to be when I “grew up”. In my teenage years, one of my uncles started asking me questions. His guidance and my interests led me to study Architectural (Structural) Engineering at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. In all honesty, I didn’t really know what I’d gotten into. It was a huge challenge and it was super cool too. I love bridges and building and constructing things. There’s no doubt I’m an engineer geek at heart.
After graduation I took my first “real” job and moved to Connecticut. Sure there were plenty of jobs in California, but I wanted to see the east coast. I launched a campaign to find a job somewhere out east. In the dark depths of the library I discovered a little black book called Professional Engineers in Private Practice. Armed with that I called more than 100 firms, collected information and sent each one an application tailored to them. This was in the day when online applications were unheard of — it was phone calls, printers, envelopes, stamps and snail mail.
The Monday after graduation I still didn’t have an engineering job offer. I was going to write grants for a professor at the university until I found what I wanted. I did have one potential lead that hadn’t gotten back to me. I called and said, “Hey. If you guys are interested at all, I’ll borrow the money from my parents to come out and meet you. Just let me know.” He asked me to give him an hour and he would call back. Boy oh boy did he. An hour later, I had a job offer. 3 weeks later I was living in Connecticut. Yeah I don’t do things the usual way.
I practiced for a few years and then decided it wasn’t my future. I didn’t know what I wanted so I took a job and tried to figure that out . At that company I eventually landed in Sales & Marketing. I became a Product and Marketing Manager. It’s also where I was first really exposed to pricing. But it was later after moving to Switzerland that I was hired as a Global Pricing Manager and earned my Certified Pricing Professional designation. Yes, there are people who do that. And yes, there’s such a thing as a CPP. That’s when Pricing became my profession. I knew I landed on something unique that not everyone else did and something that brings a lot of value to businesses.
In 2017 after a burn out in the corporate world, I started my own business. As I was exploring what’s next I knew two things: the best times I’ve had has been helping others see their own value. Sometimes it was helping children see math or science as a path for them, or helping someone with their public speaking or helping a business with pricing. That ah-ha moment, when they saw what was possible and what they could achieve, that’s when things are incredibly exciting. The second thing I knew was that Pricing was going to be the best way for me to be of service.
I had contemplated starting my own business for years — my first business plan was written in 2008. I stood at the edge of the entrepreneurial cliff, peering over the edge, wondering if it was really for me. Not one to “dip my toes in the pool a toe at time”, I decided to take the leap and give it a try, otherwise I’d never know what was possible. As The Pricing Lady I help small businesses, entrepreneurs and startups get pricing right earlier on, so they can build more sustainably profitable businesses. And that’s what I do today. I’ve spoken at many conferences on the topic Pricing. I’ve also spoken at many other events over the years both internal and external on many different topics. As you’ll see, I wasn’t always a great speaker…but I turned that around.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Related to public speaking, let me share the story of how I got where I am today. In university I had the experience of running off stage after bursting into tears during a short speech in front of 100 people. It was humiliating. After that experience, I shied away from speaking. For years I would sit in the shadows because I thought I couldn’t risk that happening again. I did public speaking from time to time, but it tormented me. At the same time, I secretly envied those people who looked like they were having a good time on stage. Why couldn’t I do that?
Fast forward nearly 15 years I joined Toastmasters in Zug Switzerland. My goal when joining was to figure out how to have fun when I was presenting. That was it. It wasn’t to be the greatest speaker or get over my fear — I simply wanted to have fun doing it.
For the first speech, the Ice Breaker speech, I was incredibly nervous…and it showed. From start to finish my voice wobbled, squeaked and sputtered. I sounded like a teenage boy. All that nervous energy made it impossible to control the pitch or quality of my voice. And my knees were literally, visibly shaking. But I powered through and delivered the whole thing anyhow. It was called “Intrepid…Who Me?”
It was a success and boy was I relieved that it was done. Everyone enjoyed it. Afterwards, my mentor came over and said, “Let’s have a meeting. We need to teach you some breathing exercises.” That begun my journey to enjoy public speaking.
From that point on I did everything I could in Toastmasters, to achieve my Confident Communicator and Leadership Certificates. In fact I’m advanced in both of them. More importantly I started participating in the contests. Long story short, in 2012 I found myself at the European Humorous Speech Championship. Lo and behold…I won and I had a smashing time delivering that speech. What I remember the most from that experience is the people who helped and supported me. I joined Toastmasters with the goal of enjoying public speaking — really that was my objective. In the end, with their encouragement, mentoring and support, I also found a passion and talent for something I didn’t know I had. A big thank you to them all.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
During university we were asked to come to the local Children’s Museum and do a talk with the kids on aerodynamics. We were told they were 4–6 so we prepared something for 4th to 6th graders — our focus was to talk about the forces that act on an airplane and allow it to fly.. We were super excited.
When we arrived the room was filled with 4–6 year old children, not the 9–11 year-olds we expected. The two of us looked at each other in panic. How were we going to explain the forces that act on an airplane to children of this age? We had about 20 minutes to figure out how to make this a fun science experience for the kids and their parents. We stepped into the back room and created 5 simple exercises we could do with the kids to help them relate to how planes fly. Our goal was for the kids to relate to some new concepts and to have a positive experience learning about engineering.
I remember laughing so hard. When we were explaining gravity to them I said, “All right kids stand up. Now I want you to jump up in the air and stay there.” Of course, they tried but kept falling to the earth and the room filled with giggles and laughter from the kids and their parents. Did they totally understand gravity, probably not. Did they have fun, learn something and connect with science & engineering in a positive way…ABSOLUTELY!
What I learned is that you have to ALWAYS be prepared for the unexpected. As a speaker the unexpected happens all the time. Be prepared to give your speech without any of the tools you’ve planned to have or for the audience to be different than you understood them to be. Simply be ready to adapt to the situation if needed. And sometimes, connection and experience are more important than true understanding. Sometimes understanding is step 2.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
One of my first mentors (professionally) was Jeanne. She was the head of the Women’s Engineering Program when I was at university and our advisor for the Society of Women Engineers. She was also a powerhouse — leading the charge to make change and provide better circumstances for the women who followed in her “footsteps”. She was so amazing at leading us that of all the engineering clubs at campus SWE was the biggest and most successful to the extent that we also had men in the club. To me it said something about what we were able to offer.
She taught me so much about how to write and speak. How to put together proposals, word grant applications, and put togethers a killer presentation. But mostly I feel I learned about having integrity as a woman in a male dominated space. About how to stand tall and stand up for what I believe is right (I also got a big dose of that from my parents). Jeanne showed me how to lead with both grace and power, while remaining authentically who I am. All these are skills that nearly 30 years later are still supporting me professionally and personally.
I’m forever grateful to her.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
In the end whatever you choose to do in life the outcome is largely determined by your mindset and your tenacity. I thought starting my own business was about my career. That it was a career decision. Boy oh boy was I wrong. It’s the BIGGEST personal development journey I’ve ever been on. It has tested & challenged me. It has crushed me at times. It’s led me to places I never dreamed were possible. Every piece of that is part of the journey. I wouldn’t be who I am or where I am if I hadn’t had those experiences.
When I went through my burnout one of the things I had to learn was the check in with myself and my mindset. To recognize in a better way when things were off track. I turned to mindfulness meditation as a tool and it’s been invaluable to me. I’ve also worked with coaches and done different programs. It’s a lifelong journey to keep working on developing & maintaining a growth mindset. There are many tools out there to help you..
The best advice I can give is to keep working on and developing your mindset — believe that you can and you will find the way. Keep building your skills and interests. Live a curious life. Don’t try to do it alone, get support when needed. Most importantly, have fun along the way. In spite of the challenges and setbacks, I can look back and say yes it’s been a great experience.
That’s what I want for you as well.
What drives you to get up everyday and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
What gets me up every day is my curiosity about the world and desire to help uplift others (or help them lift themselves). Similar to how others have helped me. I wrote earlier about my mentor, we all need a “Jeanne” or two or three in our lives. My biggest wish is that I too can be that person for someone else.
When it comes to pricing, I want people to understand what they do has value. In fact whether it’s a salary for a job or the price of your product or service or software, it has value to others. Too many people walk around thinking “I’m not worth it” or “no one will pay that.”. Reality is, if that is your mindset then they certainly won’t pay for it. I don’t want them to just know the price, in fact I want them to know the value that they bring. Because that is where the magic happens.
When you believe in the value you bring you change your mindset and the dynamics of any conversation you’re having. Ultimately this leads to more people having financial freedom because they have profitable businesses (and well-paid jobs). But first they have to believe it. Second, they have to take the steps to get there. Only then can the reap the benefits.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
One of the projects that’s very dear to my heart is Bookbridge. It’s with them that in 2019 I went to Sri Lanka to run an entrepreneurship bootcamp for local entrepreneurs. It was amazing. It never ceases to blow my mind, the incredible ideas people have for making change in the world. Working with programs like this is one of the reasons I love what I do so much. It gives me the opportunities to travel to new places, meet & learn from these amazing people and help others in their own journey. Now that things are opening up again I look forward to future opportunities not just to support them online but also in person.
As for where I’m heading, I don’t have a full plan for the next steps. I do know that it includes things like public speaking, seeing more of the world, meeting new people, making a difference and helping people believe in their value. Recently I’ve had a revelation or awakening that’s shifted things. I’ve worked in many industries and each was absolutely fascinating. I’ve learned so much and enjoy the learning process. But I can’t say I was passionate about what we did as a company. Yes the Power Industry is fascinating and so is Agriculture but they weren’t my passion. I was passionate about what I did in those companies, just not about what we did.
As I’ve been contemplating what’s next I’ve also been reminded about my passion for education and children. I wonder right now what it would be like to do something in an industry where I’m as passionate about what I do as what we do. It’s not yet clear what that looks like. I’m excited to see where this strange combination of interests and my passion leads me. If life has taught me anything, it’s there in my peripheral vision, it’s just not in full focus yet.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Rather than a quote there’s a poem I’d like to share because it sums up how I view the meaning of the people I come across and the things that happen in my life.
Bits and Pieces by Lois Cheney. It’s about how we are made up of all the bits and pieces of people (I also include the things that happen to us) who have come into our lives. Some have been there for a long time, others briefly. Some have had a positive influence others have been hard to bear. Ultimately each of them lives on in us and is part of who we are. I love that sentiment and it reminds me that everyone (& everything) has a purpose in my path. And so do I in theirs.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
- A great message to share
- Skill to talk about your subject at the level of the audience
- Ability to make each person feel like you’re talking to them
- A good sense of humor
- A love for your audience
A Great Message to Share: One thing that I always found interesting is how stressed people can get about the topic of their speech. My definition of a great message is one you are passionate about sharing. Here’s why, if you’re passionate about it you can make it interesting for anyone to hear. I think that often people think that have to say something earth shattering or something no one else has said. That’s how finding the message becomes such a challenge.
One time when I was preparing for a speech, I wasn’t sure what topic I wanted to present yet. I was in a meeting with my boss. I kept yawning (it was no reflection on him). He asked, “Am I boring you?” He wasn’t. I just tended to yawn a lot and that got me curious. If I’m not boring him, why was I yawning. That became the title of my next speech. Was it a great message? Some would say no. I’d say yes, because I made it so. A great message is that which you are both passionate about (at the time) and can deliver in an entertaining way. And that’s precisely what I did.
Skill to Talk About Your Subject at the Level of the Audience: This is where many professionals struggle. They can talk about their subject but they assume the audience knows what they know and speaks the way they speak. Those assumptions break connection with large portions of the audience, sometimes the whole room because you end up talking “above” them. It’s not about “dumbing” things down, it is about meeting people where they are.
Earlier I wrote about being able to take a talk we had prepared for 4th-6th grader and turn into something 4–6 year olds could relate to. It’s the same in what I do today. Recently I worked with a program that helps migrants start businesses. I don’t assume they are familiar with finance or marketing terminology. I bring the content to them in a way that everyone can understand and engage. I start with the basics. If you can’t adapt like that then inevitably you’ll end up talking over people. Your message might be great but people won’t understand it.
Ability to make each person feel like you’re talking to them: To me this is one of the greatest gifts a speaker can give to someone in the audience. And believe me, even if the audience is huge you can still leave people with the feeling that you were speaking to them. This is usually only possible when you’re confident in your message and skilled at delivery. Sometimes it will also come with passion and authenticity.
Prior to the European Championship I had participated in other contests, in particular with a speech titled “Duckie Moon”. It was about how my Dad had helped me learn to believe in myself when I was a kid (I was awkward like most of us). People came up to me all the time and thanked me for how I connected with them during the speech. They each felt I was talking to them. Or course I was talking to an audience of 50–100 people but I was able to connect with each of them. I paid attention to when I got that feedback and incorporated more of that into my speaking.
A Good Sense of Humor: OK I don’t mean you have to be telling jokes, although a good one will help here and there. I mean have a good sense of humor and be able to roll with whatever happens. People make mistakes. I’ve done it and will continue to do so. Chances are I’m not yet done in this life with embarrassing myself or making mistakes. While I would prefer not to, it’s better to assume it will happen again.
If you mess up, that’s ok chances are you might be the only one who notices. If it’s a biggie, then have a good laugh about it. You can freak out later in private if you must. Life is too precious to be serious all the time and when you’re speaking there are bound to be things that happen that you don’t expect. Smile and move on.
A Love for Your Audience: When it comes to the fear of public speaking, I’ll often joke with people “How dare you be so selfish.” Because when you’re so focused on how scared you feel it’s because all your energy is on you. It’s centered on worrying about what’s happening to you. When your attention and energy is directed towards the audience and bringing them value (whether they learn something or it’s just for entertainment) then you’re serving a higher purpose. It’s easier to do it in spite of the fear, when you’re serving others. In fact, you might still be nervous but you’ll find the courage to do it anyhow, because IT MATTERS on a whole different level.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Participating fully in Toastmasters is what made the difference for me. Find a similar place where you can practice, mentor someone and get consistent practice.
First, I got a lot of consistent practice in an environment where it didn’t matter what happened (as opposed to a work related environment where I didn’t want to mess up in front of colleagues). Second, the community is supportive and helpful. You get a mentor and you get feedback. You know what to work on and have someone to help you explore how to improve. Last, it also gave me the opportunity to see a lot of speeches and different styles. I learned from seeing the good ones and the ones that still need to improve. It gave me different ideas of what I could do.
When I had direct reports, some wanted to attend a week long public speaking training. I always required them to join Toastmasters first and do the first 3 speeches. Then we would send them to the training. After which they needed to complete speeches 4–10 at Toastmasters. This gave them both the training they wanted and the consistent practice and feedback they needed to master and ingrain the skills they learned.
Ultimately in a way that works for you, embrace the fear. Accept it’s ok to be afraid, just don’t let it stop you if you really want to do it. Get help to learn how to use the nervous energy that arises to connect with your audience.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
A worthiness movement.
I myself had two math teachers in high school whose actions led me to doubt myself. One even told my parents and I that I was stupid and would never be able to do math. Joke was on them when I graduated from University with an engineering degree. My point is things happen in life that make us doubt ourselves and feel less worthy. It sucks. But it doesn’t have to define who you are going forward.
In various aspects of what I do from pricing to public speaking, I’ve worked with people and see how little regard they hold for themselves. On some level they doubt their worthiness. Worthiness — that they have a topic that people will be interested in. Worthiness — to charge for the value their product or service delivers. Worthiness — to have opinions, ideas, speak up, get that job etc… You name it, it pervasively impacts everything they do.
Let’s break this down for a moment. Most people would agree that when a child is born into this world, they are worthy. If we accept that as true, then the question is, if you don’t feel worthy now, at what point in time did you stop being worthy? At 3 months? At 1 year? At 4 years, at 10 at 30 at 50, etc…
The answer is each of us was born worthy, have always been worthy, are worthy and will continue to be so. If we all just accepted that a bit more and didn’t allow outside forces to chink away at how we feel, we would be much happier beings. The world would be a much better place for it.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Yes there is. It would be Oprah Winfrey. I remember as a teenager running home from school to catch her show. I was always excited to see who would be on the show and learn from the discussions. And now I’m an avid follower of Super Soul Sunday, to the extent that I go back and relisten to episodes I’ve listened to before. Admittedly, I find it hard to verbalize what it is — there’s so much about her that inspires me.
Growing up she was, aside from my own family, probably the biggest public female influence on me and how I thought about the world. OK at 15 I wouldn’t have expressed that way but she is and always has been for me a beacon of what was possible for women. My impression of her is that she upholds many of the values that are important to me like trust, respect, integrity, joy, strength, and vulnerability.
She’s also just good fun. Her laugh is contagious and to sit down and have a chat with her would be one of the great privileges of my life.
As I’ve listened to the podcast I’ve laughed, cried and reflected on myself and my place in the world. When times are tough I find myself thinking “It’s a SuperSoul Day” I need to reach out and get me some Oprah. Haha! Whatever I listen to it feels like the right message at the right time.
She inspires me to be a better version of myself. Thank you Oprah for that!
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Yes, mostly they can find me on LinkedIn or on Facebook (both @thepricinglady). Or on my website similarly named.
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
Janene Liston, The Pricing Lady On The 5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.
